Rutgers, The B1G Joke
- Thread starter Muggsy Blue
- Start date
Not trying to be argumentative, but why do you think that they can turn it around quickly, when their history appears to indicate otherwise? In the Big Ten Conference, whom do you think that they will surpass to be relevant and a contender?
I don't know if Rutgers will turn it around and If they do it probably won't be quickly. But to compare Rutgers now with the revenues and exposure they will receive as a member of the B1G compared to Rutgers of the past with their affiliation with the Big East & the AAC is night and day. Rutgers is a good school with a lot of football and basketball talent in their area. The right coach and administration could lead to good things for Rutgers.
There is a lot of competition football wise in the B1G East, but in reality what does Michigan State have at its disposal that Rutgers does not? From 2000 to 2009 MSU went 5-6, 7-5, 4-8, 8-5, 5-7, 5-6, 4-8, 7-6, 9-4, 6-7.
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The influence that Rutgers has on the East Coast is vastly overrated. Most of the NJ/NYC -area talent gets picked-off by other programs.
They'd like people to think that they have a big NYC following when in reality they don't. They've been playing football longer than anyone - their 1869 game with Princeton is considered by most football historians to be the first collegiate football game ever played - yet they've won just one conference title and have never challenged for a national title.
And what more can anyone say about Rutgers football when their best, most recognized player that they've ever produced is Ray "One Punch" Rice?
Everything you say is accurate but the right coach/administration can change that just as Dantonio-MSU has changed their situation a ton in the last 6 years. Greg Schiano was doing some of that before he left Rutgers. None of the other schools in the region (Maryland, Virginia, Virginia Tech, Boston College, Syracuse, UCONN, Temple, Penn State and Pitt) are in the top 25 at the moment. The right coach, with the right administration behind him at any of those schools has an opportunity to build a solid program and lure some of the area talent.
Don't get me wrong: is it possible? Sure. But don't hold your breath waiting for it to happen. I don't have the stats in front of me, but if we explored the number of new coaches who are hired, and we checked-out their success rate, we'd find that most new hires do not set the football world on fire. It just doesn't happen. Rodriguez flopped at Michigan, as did Brady Hoke (how does anyone flop at Michigan?); Golden is struggling to win at Miami, in spite of being surrounded by some of the best high school talent in the country; Bielema is under-achieving at Arkansas. So even hiring a so-called "proven" head coach doesn't guarantee success.
And besides, if the new Rutgers coach is to achieve a high success rate, then his success would have to begin in his own conference. So that means he's gotta take a program that's in the basement, with no significant record of national success in its history, has no cache, and he's gotta be better at his job than Meyer, Harbaugh, and the other respectable coaches who inhabit the Big Ten. Good luck with that!
That's disappointing to hear. I know that when Pitt played at Iowa, Pitt fans reported that the Iowa fans were a class act, and they treated Pitt fans well.
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muggzee the only team you have beaten this year with awinning record is illinois at 4-3,
That's always been true. It's a serious rivalry, UW hates UI, and, well, having lived in Madison, I've never met a fan base that is completely inebriated by 9 AM. When you get a 100,000 drunks in one place, they're going to attack anything in black and gold. And I say this as an Iowa fan. I take no offense. I think it's good for college football to have hooligans. Why let the European soccer leagues have all the drunken morons? UW picking up the slack.
I wonder if Rutgers could get Schiano back and if he had known RU was going to the B1G if he would have left when he did.
I suspect Rutgers will have success at men's basketball sooner than football. But they'll eventually be winners occasionally. But even if they never have great success, because they're in the league, all the cable systems around NYC have added BTN, which is already a big money win for the B1G.
I suspect Rutgers will have success at men's basketball sooner than football. But they'll eventually be winners occasionally. But even if they never have great success, because they're in the league, all the cable systems around NYC have added BTN, which is already a big money win for the B1G.
Eternal Return
Your first and only post, lol. Who won yesterday? Return to the hole you crawled out of and may it be eternal jackass.
Your first and only post, lol. Who won yesterday? Return to the hole you crawled out of and may it be eternal jackass.
What was Wisconsin before Richter hired Barry Alvarez?
Rutgers needs the right hire and they will be very good and quickly too, they already send plenty to the NFL.
When Schiano had them going that ONE YEAR, the buzz was amazing in NJ and NYC..
Rutgers needs the right hire and they will be very good and quickly too, they already send plenty to the NFL.
When Schiano had them going that ONE YEAR, the buzz was amazing in NJ and NYC..
The buzz is old and stale. It was 9 years ago when we beat Louisville who was a highly ranked team at the time, IIRC # 3, in the last 20 seconds. That is when students, by the hundreds, were lined up all night to buy tickets for that game. Schiano ordered hundreds of pizza's that night and handed them out to the students waiting in line. The empire state building, yes the one in the city, was lite up in scarlet for the game. All the approaching placards for the Garden State Parkway and the New Jersey Turnpike had go RU info that week. Premium seating tickets were going for as much as 10 times face value. William Gay, who is now in the NFL, jumped off sides which allowed us a second chance at the field goal, Judge Ito kicked, that won the game with 20 seconds left.
This is an old and tired story but the moral is winning breeds excitement and excitement puts fannies in the seats. God knows we have enough fannies around the tri-state area that would love to be part of a winning college program.
With our new AD Hobbs and Coach Ash there is a very positive buzz in the air around here. Let's revisited this subject in 2-4 years and see how things are going.
(apologies in advance, this got a little longer than intended).
Rutgers is loaded with potential, but no one has really found the key to untap it (the phrase "sleeping giant" is frequently used, but other than waking up long enough to hit the snooze button in 2006, it's remained sleeping).
Most of our history is essentially at the FCS or Div-III level. While we played in the first game in 1869, we didn't really commit much to the program and rapidly fell behind the northeast powers (Princeton, Yale, Harvard). When college football started to become more of a national phenomenon, we were a small liberal arts school. It wasn't until 1945 that we became the state university.
Even then, though, we largely played a schedule of small local schools, almost none of which are in Div I. Lehigh, Lafayette, Columbia, Princeton, Colgate... it wasn't until 1980 that we started to add more legitimate programs to the schedule as an independent (waiting on that Eastern all-sport conference that Paterno was hoping for but never materialized).
But we never invested any money in the program, even as we were increasing competition. While the start of the 80s was fairly mediocre (27-27 from 1980-1984) it rapidly dropped off due to lack of focus and funding (23-39-2 from 1985-1990). Then we joined the Big East in 1991 and still failed to invest. By the end of the 1990s, we were truly terrible (21-44 from 1996-2000).
It wasn't until 2001 when Schiano came in that we started to invest in the program. He convinced the AD to build new facilities, improve the academic support, invest in coaches, etc. In 2005, we finally returned to a bowl (we hadn't seen one since 1978), and in 2006 we had a breakthrough year that led to increased interest and a stadium expansion.
From 2007-2012, Schiano kept us fairly respectable, but not great. Making infrequent appearances in the Top 25, but never really winning the big game (and never beating WVU). When he left and we installed Flood as the HC, it was a big mistake.
Flood wasn't ready to be a HC at the Big East level, let alone the Big Ten level. While he got Friedgen to come out of retirement for a year, the coordinators and assistants he brought in were also not up to the task - and largely promoted from within, too rapidly. Flood wasn't connected to the larger coaching fraternity, and didn't have guys he could call on to come help. It also didn't help that we were only getting something like $7M per year from the Big East, and were carrying a huge subsidy because we were (finally) spending but not seeing any real return.
The return on that investment was the invite to the Big Ten, which was largely due to exposure in the NJ/NYC markets. Getting in-state carriage fees for Comcast/Cablevision in NJ, bigger ratings for Big Ten games in the NYC market, etc. If Schiano hadn't gotten us to at least a level of respectability (through investment), none of that would have happened, though.
But we still aren't getting a full share of the revenue (won't be until 2021), and are only seeing slightly more than we did in the Big East. We still don't have the cash to go spend on big name established HC or coordinators, but we can see light on the horizon.
New Jersey is a fertile state for recruiting, easily one of the Top 10 in the country (and some years, arguably in the Top 5) - but we've never really had the investment in the program that allowed us to really draw the attention of any of those recruits. We'd get the rare Anthony Davis, but that was it. Finally in 2012 we got a NJ big haul (largely because of Jeff Hafley's recruiting), but Flood couldn't keep up that momentum or develop those players after Schiano/Hafley left for the Bucs.
We have high hopes for Ash. If he succeeds, we'll have the money to retain him in 3-4 years time. If he fails, though, we'll have the money to go after a more established coach. The first step is getting up off the mat, though.
Someone asked what programs we could pass - I'd say the first step is regularly being seen ahead of Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, and Maryland. Win a couple of the bigger games (like we almost did over MSU this year) and draw the attention of even 50% of the top 20 recruits in NJ every year, and fortunes can change quickly.
Right now, though, we're just hoping to get to a bowl next year and see where we go from there.
Rutgers is loaded with potential, but no one has really found the key to untap it (the phrase "sleeping giant" is frequently used, but other than waking up long enough to hit the snooze button in 2006, it's remained sleeping).
Most of our history is essentially at the FCS or Div-III level. While we played in the first game in 1869, we didn't really commit much to the program and rapidly fell behind the northeast powers (Princeton, Yale, Harvard). When college football started to become more of a national phenomenon, we were a small liberal arts school. It wasn't until 1945 that we became the state university.
Even then, though, we largely played a schedule of small local schools, almost none of which are in Div I. Lehigh, Lafayette, Columbia, Princeton, Colgate... it wasn't until 1980 that we started to add more legitimate programs to the schedule as an independent (waiting on that Eastern all-sport conference that Paterno was hoping for but never materialized).
But we never invested any money in the program, even as we were increasing competition. While the start of the 80s was fairly mediocre (27-27 from 1980-1984) it rapidly dropped off due to lack of focus and funding (23-39-2 from 1985-1990). Then we joined the Big East in 1991 and still failed to invest. By the end of the 1990s, we were truly terrible (21-44 from 1996-2000).
It wasn't until 2001 when Schiano came in that we started to invest in the program. He convinced the AD to build new facilities, improve the academic support, invest in coaches, etc. In 2005, we finally returned to a bowl (we hadn't seen one since 1978), and in 2006 we had a breakthrough year that led to increased interest and a stadium expansion.
From 2007-2012, Schiano kept us fairly respectable, but not great. Making infrequent appearances in the Top 25, but never really winning the big game (and never beating WVU). When he left and we installed Flood as the HC, it was a big mistake.
Flood wasn't ready to be a HC at the Big East level, let alone the Big Ten level. While he got Friedgen to come out of retirement for a year, the coordinators and assistants he brought in were also not up to the task - and largely promoted from within, too rapidly. Flood wasn't connected to the larger coaching fraternity, and didn't have guys he could call on to come help. It also didn't help that we were only getting something like $7M per year from the Big East, and were carrying a huge subsidy because we were (finally) spending but not seeing any real return.
The return on that investment was the invite to the Big Ten, which was largely due to exposure in the NJ/NYC markets. Getting in-state carriage fees for Comcast/Cablevision in NJ, bigger ratings for Big Ten games in the NYC market, etc. If Schiano hadn't gotten us to at least a level of respectability (through investment), none of that would have happened, though.
But we still aren't getting a full share of the revenue (won't be until 2021), and are only seeing slightly more than we did in the Big East. We still don't have the cash to go spend on big name established HC or coordinators, but we can see light on the horizon.
New Jersey is a fertile state for recruiting, easily one of the Top 10 in the country (and some years, arguably in the Top 5) - but we've never really had the investment in the program that allowed us to really draw the attention of any of those recruits. We'd get the rare Anthony Davis, but that was it. Finally in 2012 we got a NJ big haul (largely because of Jeff Hafley's recruiting), but Flood couldn't keep up that momentum or develop those players after Schiano/Hafley left for the Bucs.
We have high hopes for Ash. If he succeeds, we'll have the money to retain him in 3-4 years time. If he fails, though, we'll have the money to go after a more established coach. The first step is getting up off the mat, though.
Someone asked what programs we could pass - I'd say the first step is regularly being seen ahead of Indiana, Purdue, Illinois, and Maryland. Win a couple of the bigger games (like we almost did over MSU this year) and draw the attention of even 50% of the top 20 recruits in NJ every year, and fortunes can change quickly.
Right now, though, we're just hoping to get to a bowl next year and see where we go from there.
Oh, take a joke, Muggsy. My first post here, but not on Rivals sites. I'm a Hawk fan so I usually stay there. Madison is fun, I loved going to the games there. And I was usually as hammered as the Badger faithful by 9 AM -- of course, all my friends were Badger fans so go figure! That's Wisconsin for you, man: drunk by 9 AM, passed out by noon.
I know, I was making joke. Sheesh, come on, you're a Badger fan. Surely you can sense sarcasm when you read it. I know you can discern it when you hear it because I've lived in Madison and I poured on the sarcasm thick and often and no one ever missed a beat. Apparently you didn't go to UW because the students there are actually pretty fun-loving and like to dish out the **** as much s they take it. Cheers.
I think any school has potential including Rutgers. My question is are they in a position financially to become a player. I see the coaches they are hiring and all can see is Pitt. Pitt went from being a power back in the late 70's to a school who decided to be cheap. Their Academics took off but their athletics became a joke. I'm not knocking Ash, but it appears he is operating under a strict budget with his coaching hires.
Short answer is no, we aren't in a position financially right now to become a player.
Longer answer is that we're on the right path to a better financial position. We're still only getting about $8-10M from the Big Ten this year (actual amount hasn't been publicized, only that we're gradually ramping to a full share in 2021), and we're trying to reduce a $26M school subsidy at the same time.
Ash is hiring a lot of "up and coming" coaches. They may pan out, they may not. He may pan out, and he may not. The general feeling is that in 3 years, we'll see where we're at. If Ash has been doing well and the program is moving in the right direction, we'll have more money at that point to pay/retain him (and either pay to retain the current staff, or pay to replace them with more established guys). If Ash isn't doing well and the program isn't moving in the right direction, we'll have more money at that point to go after a more proven coach and staff.
Ash needs to bridge us to at least 2019 or so, when we'll be making closer to a full share of the Big Ten money. We're full of optimism right now that he and his "young", "hungry" staff will begin to right the ship (especially with recruiting), but we know we won't be in a competitive financial place until closer to 2020.
That especially goes for the basketball program, which is and has been a train wreck for decades.
